elT
That makes it four in a row.

We waited for 20 years to get to fifty, four years later we are taking it for granted. Let's not. For some perspective, Wizards haven't won 50 games in 40 years.

Since Masai arrived and after he traded Bargnani and Rudy Gay within first season:

2014: 48
2015: 49
2016: 56 - first time ever Raptors won 50
2017: 51
2018: 59
2019: 50 and counting

It's easy to forget it, easy to get used to good and great teams, easy to get lost in higher than ever expectations but remember, as recent as 2010/2011 season, we had 60 losses. Ancient history, right? Sure feels like it after this 6 years run. Winning heals. Let's never tank again.

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Pzabby_2nd
elT wrote:
That makes it four in a row.

We waited for 20 years to get to fifty, four years later we are taking it for granted. Let's not. For some perspective, Wizards haven't won 50 games in 40 years.

Since Masai arrived and after he traded Bargnani and Rudy Gay within first season:

2014: 48
2015: 49
2016: 56 - first time ever Raptors won 50
2017: 51
2018: 59
2019: 50 and counting

It's easy to forget it, easy to get used to good and great teams, easy to get lost in higher than ever expectations but remember, as recent as 2010/2011 season, we had 60 losses. Ancient history, right? Sure feels like it after this 6 years run. Winning heals. Let's never tank again.



Nice :)

Agreed.
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'trane
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Wu
You're not wrong. It's a much better position to be in.  But another flame out in the playoffs will make it feel rather hollow.

I guess I could have just waited for jeff to write that.  lol.
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elT
Wu wrote:
You're not wrong. It's a much better position to be in.  But another flame out in the playoffs will make it feel rather hollow.

I guess I could have just waited for jeff to write that.  lol.



[rofl]
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moremilk
Wu wrote:
You're not wrong. It's a much better position to be in.  But another flame out in the playoffs will make it feel rather hollow.

I guess I could have just waited for jeff to write that.  lol.


Technically, we've been the classic good/not great team, like Atlanta and Memphis in previous years.

However, this season may change that(or not), but, more importantly, for a young franchise, like Toronto, this is far more important and should have long term consequences.

We have shown that you can win in Canada, and that should permanently silence most critics/Canada dismissers and haters.

Eventually, winning 50 games, but failing in the playoffs will take its toll though, so we'd better make a splash this season.
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MM_Raps
elT wrote:
That makes it four in a row.

We waited for 20 years to get to fifty, four years later we are taking it for granted. Let's not. For some perspective, Wizards haven't won 50 games in 40 years.

Since Masai arrived and after he traded Bargnani and Rudy Gay within first season:

2014: 48
2015: 49
2016: 56 - first time ever Raptors won 50
2017: 51
2018: 59
2019: 50 and counting

It's easy to forget it, easy to get used to good and great teams, easy to get lost in higher than ever expectations but remember, as recent as 2010/2011 season, we had 60 losses. Ancient history, right? Sure feels like it after this 6 years run. Winning heals. Let's never tank again.



Honestly when we lose games, it still reminds me of those losing years... with Calderon and Bargnanni
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elT
moremilk wrote:


Technically, we've been the classic good/not great team, like Atlanta and Memphis in previous years.

However, this season may change that(or not), but, more importantly, for a young franchise, like Toronto, this is far more important and should have long term consequences.

We have shown that you can win in Canada, and that should permanently silence most critics/Canada dismissers and haters.

Eventually, winning 50 games, but failing in the playoffs will take its toll though, so we'd better make a splash this season.


What do you consider failing in playoffs and what is the toll?

I've said before, three years ago when we made it to ECF, I'd sign up for ten years of that right away. Fifty wins and a round won puts you to top 8 in the world and gives you at least 90 games to watch every season. That is nearly 240 hours of entertainment, a ten day vacation. Add time spent arguing with fairly anonymous assholes online and that is a month long vacation.

Yeah, as Pop said, there's winning(the championship) and then there's misery. But he also said, in the end it is just basketball. So the more good, meaningful, competitive basketball the better. It's beautiful.

And somewhere on that road, you might stumble upon a real chance to snatch that trophy. That makes it even more fun.
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LX
Yeah, personally I find the continued success more important than going for it all on a short-term basis. I like that Masai has not made everything about this season, while doing so much to get to another level. Fun times.
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moremilk
elT wrote:


What do you consider failing in playoffs and what is the toll?

I've said before, three years ago when we made it to ECF, I'd sign up for ten years of that right away. Fifty wins and a round won puts you to top 8 in the world and gives you at least 90 games to watch every season. That is nearly 240 hours of entertainment, a ten day vacation. Add time spent arguing with fairly anonymous assholes online and that is a month long vacation.

Yeah, as Pop said, there's winning(the championship) and then there's misery. But he also said, in the end it is just basketball. So the more good, meaningful, competitive basketball the better. It's beautiful.

And somewhere on that road, you might stumble upon a real chance to snatch that trophy. That makes it even more fun.


Well, obviously winning a title is the goal, so by that measure, we failed. Even being a true contender, somebody with at least a shot - we haven't been that. That Atlanta team, they also won 50, even 60 games for many seasons - but they never really threatened the best teams.

As I always stated, I don't have a problem with it. Even the false hopes, they were happy times for years and years. It was an amazing stretch, which may well continue into the future - and if kawhi stays, we'll probably be a contender for at least the next 5 years.

However, I do think that eventually it wears on everybody and you got to do something, one way or another. If you have a very clear ceiling you can never breach, both the fans and the organization will grow tired of it.

That's why I loved the kawhi gamble, it was the right time to do it.
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elT
moremilk wrote:


Well, obviously winning a title is the goal, so by that measure, we failed. Even being a true contender, somebody with at least a shot - we haven't been that. That Atlanta team, they also won 50, even 60 games for many seasons - but they never really threatened the best teams.

As I always stated, I don't have a problem with it. Even the false hopes, they were happy times for years and years. It was an amazing stretch, which may well continue into the future - and if kawhi stays, we'll probably be a contender for at least the next 5 years.

However, I do think that eventually it wears on everybody and you got to do something, one way or another. If you have a very clear ceiling you can never breach, both the fans and the organization will grow tired of it.

That's why I loved the kawhi gamble, it was the right time to do it.


I don't see it wearing on me, sorry, not sorry. I refuse to fall for ESPN and TNT driven fake values and narrative, so aggressively pushed by their loudmouths. "Championship or bust" mentality is necessary as element of being competitive, an important benchmark for the organization but not the only benchmark nor the one worthy of being fooled by.

It is just basketball, a beautiful game in a well run league that is growing both as a business and as a force for good. From global impact of growing talent pool to concrete programs for less rich parts of the world to just being decent and supportive overall. There's so much to enjoy and celebrate, it would be foolish to get trapped by that oversimplified mental diarrhea.

Imagine not fully enjoying Pascal Siakam playing basketball because chances of winning a title are not great? What a waste man, what a waste.


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moremilk
elT wrote:


I don't see it wearing on me, sorry, not sorry. I refuse to fall for ESPN and TNT driven fake values and narrative, so aggressively pushed by their loudmouths. "Championship or bust" mentality is necessary as element of being competitive, an important benchmark for the organization but not the only benchmark nor the one worthy of being fooled by.

It is just basketball, a beautiful game in a well run league that is growing both as a business and as a force for good. From global impact of growing talent pool to concrete programs for less rich parts of the world to just being decent and supportive overall. There's so much to enjoy and celebrate, it would be foolish to get trapped by that oversimplified mental diarrhea.

Imagine not fully enjoying Pascal Siakam playing basketball because chances of winning a title are not great? What a waste man, what a waste.




well, you and LX are hyper-optimists 😉

The rest of the world has occasional doubts …

I can only speak for myself, and I am both enjoying the fact that I can come home from work, have a beer and watch a game that I can reasonably expect to be happy about at the end. I could live with that, most of the time.

However, I also resent (sometimes deeply) when I see up and coming teams catching on to us and overtaking us (like Boston, Milwaukee and Philly next season, if kawhi leaves). I hate when media dismisses our regular season success (oh well, they're the raptors, they're good in the regular season, but they'll never make it past team X).

Finally, it's hard to consistently win 50+ games. Very few teams have done it in history, and they were usually anchored by an all-time player (Duncan, Nowitzki). No matter how well you draft, it's very hard to get players like demar or kyle or JV in the upper 20s. We got lucky with siakam, but we'd need to repeat that a few more times. Not only that, but the players themselves may get tired of it too - they may look for opportunities on a true contender, especially as they age, and even if it means taking a lesser role.

 
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elT
moremilk wrote:


well, you and LX are hyper-optimists 😉

The rest of the world has occasional doubts …

I can only speak for myself, and I am both enjoying the fact that I can come home from work, have a beer and watch a game that I can reasonably expect to be happy about at the end. I could live with that, most of the time.

However, I also resent (sometimes deeply) when I see up and coming teams catching on to us and overtaking us (like Boston, Milwaukee and Philly next season, if kawhi leaves). I hate when media dismisses our regular season success (oh well, they're the raptors, they're good in the regular season, but they'll never make it past team X).

Finally, it's hard to consistently win 50+ games. Very few teams have done it in history, and they were usually anchored by an all-time player (Duncan, Nowitzki). No matter how well you draft, it's very hard to get players like demar or kyle or JV in the upper 20s. We got lucky with siakam, but we'd need to repeat that a few more times. Not only that, but the players themselves may get tired of it too - they may look for opportunities on a true contender, especially as they age, and even if it means taking a lesser role.

 


I'm offended by that hyper-optimist label, that is weak. Sir, I'm much worse, a pathological optimist. Better remember that. I believe you will.

[wink]

Optimism has nothing to do with it. Appreciating and celebrating the game is what it is all about. I can watch Gasol defending off ball, swinging his head like an owl on ecstasy, slowly reading the play, angling his hips, taking half a step towards middle of the paint and then perfectly timing his lunge forward and swing at the ball to get a deflection. Slowest guy on the court but five steps ahead of everyone else. Beautiful.

Or look at D'Angelo Russel, snaking the P&R show defense, putting his man in jail, reading defense in front him and throwing in a smooth floater. A young guy beginning to figure it out, use different speeds, stay on balance and decide quickly. Beautiful.

Or remember, Tim Duncan, getting the ball on the elbow, doing nothing but subtle jab stepping and head faking and then just banking in a shot while defender remains dizzy out of simplicity. Exquisite.

None of those cases require any kind of useless debate show pollution. Which Gasol brother is better? Did Raptors make just a lateral move? Would Lakers be better if they kept DLO instead of Ingram or whoever? Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnet vs Karl Malone?

Who gives a fuck outside of fake clowns who built their entire careers based on amazing stuff somebody else did?

I agree that winning 50 is hard. Hence the thread. We are taking it for granted and conditioning enjoyment and celebration of it on some constructed measure. Before the season started, most media had us 3rd and 4th in the East but somehow not making the finals is a complete failure. Just how scrambled their media brain has to be to state such oxymoron mess in a serious manner? Half of it is also trolling because Raptors fans react to these rankings like rabid seagulls and immediately start flocking sites/videos/comments sections/tweets.








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