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JeffB
moremilk wrote:


jackson sure, but fred is better than smith who can't hit a 3 to save his life. 

regardless, nobody is paying mle or close to that for a backup, so the danger is teams that think fred can start.


I'm not much of a fan of Jackson either.
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elT
Tommy C wrote:


Who said the FVV situation is a make or break?
The whole point of developing players is that you keep them, like the Spurs have been doing for years, not to develop them and let them flourish somewhere else.
In the playoffs it was pretty obvious how he was missed when he wasn’t playing.
I like Wright as well but I’m more comfortable with FVV.
If Fred walks away, Wright has another year left before he gets paid which is something to consider as well.

Miles is disappointing, I would ship him to sign FVV if needed, with that being said I have a feeling someone is going to offer FVV a crazy deal that we won’t be able to match, ala Lin.



You called it messed up which I interpreted as "extremely important decision". "make or brake" is too much and nowhere near what you said in your post, you did put a lot of emphasis on FVV and financial situation and while I did make a mistake you can see what part mislead me.

Agree that FVV is important and it would be great to keep him. But the whole thing didn't happen because Masai didn't manage the finances well, it happened because the roster he assembled is too deep and our undrafted 2nd year player who was 15th man last year became NBA 6th man of the year award finalist while our start of the season starter had a horrible season(Powell) and become 11th man on the roster.

We can say that Lowry and Ibaka are overpayed but at the time they signed those were widely regarded as good deals as the length of contracts was the issue.

As things stand and assuming we keep McKinnie, we have 127.5M$ committed for 12 men roster next year. Tax is expected around 123M$. If FVV signs 4 year deal based on tax payers MLE like Dan mentioned, that financial crunch suddenly becomes position of strength. We'd be less than 10M$ over tax which is perfectly acceptable for Raptors who had 50M$ operating profit in 2016/2017. Given that Lowry, Ibaka, JV and DDR are all expiring deals after next season and that easy and cheap(asset wise) decisions can be made then, there is no financial problem. Despite Cavs series, the team earned it.

And if FVV gets a crazy offer, you wish him luck and take pride in fact you helped a young man and father achieve an important milestone in career/life.

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Tommy C
elT wrote:


You called it messed up which I interpreted as "extremely important decision". "make or brake" is too much and nowhere near what you said in your post, you did put a lot of emphasis on FVV and financial situation and while I did make a mistake you can see what part mislead me.

Agree that FVV is important and it would be great to keep him. But the whole thing didn't happen because Masai didn't manage the finances well, it happened because the roster he assembled is too deep and our undrafted 2nd year player who was 15th man last year became NBA 6th man of the year award finalist while our start of the season starter had a horrible season(Powell) and become 11th man on the roster.

We can say that Lowry and Ibaka are overpayed but at the time they signed those were widely regarded as good deals as the length of contracts was the issue.

As things stand and assuming we keep McKinnie, we have 127.5M$ committed for 12 men roster next year. Tax is expected around 123M$. If FVV signs 4 year deal based on tax payers MLE like Dan mentioned, that financial crunch suddenly becomes position of strength. We'd be less than 10M$ over tax which is perfectly acceptable for Raptors who had 50M$ operating profit in 2016/2017. Given that Lowry, Ibaka, JV and DDR are all expiring deals after next season and that easy and cheap(asset wise) decisions can be made then, there is no financial problem. Despite Cavs series, the team earned it.

And if FVV gets a crazy offer, you wish him luck and take pride in fact you helped a young man and father achieve an important milestone in career/life.



This is where we see things differently I suppose as I don’t see the ownership willing to go into the tax, not yet at least unless Masai is orchestrating a blockbuster deal to bring some talent north of the border which puts the Raps into the tax.

I think FVV has shown that he is a very capable bench player, I can’t predict his ceiling, he is a hard working dude, I like his demeanor and the way he carries himself so losing him will sting.
To me his floor is a solid backup PG, ceiling Lowry 2.0.
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elT
Tommy C wrote:


This is where we see things differently I suppose as I don’t see the ownership willing to go into the tax, not yet at least unless Masai is orchestrating a blockbuster deal to bring some talent north of the border which puts the Raps into the tax.

I think FVV has shown that he is a very capable bench player, I can’t predict his ceiling, he is a hard working dude, I like his demeanor and the way he carries himself so losing him will sting.
To me his floor is a solid backup PG, ceiling Lowry 2.0.


Masai stated a 100 times, directly, that paying tax is no problem at all as long as it makes sense. He even qualified that it doesn't make sense to pay tax and lose in the first round. By that, 59 wins and comfortable win against the Wizards makes me think paying tax is no issue. I'm trusting Masai more than gut feelings of fans, with all due respect.

How much tax is a different issue. That is why full ~9M$ MLE for FVV might be too much especially if he gets crazy offer with 10+M$ or even 15+M$ in years 3 and 4. That would be a bad contract. We'd be spending 40M$ on Lowry and FVV plus spending 15% of cap on a backup PG in two years for two more years. Ideally, he gets 5.4M$ tax MLE and is happy with it.
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LOG
My problem with tax while we are not a legit contender is not a fact that ownership would have to spend couple extra mil. It's that we would be bringing ourselves closer to repeater tax without any reason, which might really backfire if this team takes the next step
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elT
LOG wrote:
My problem with tax while we are not a legit contender is not a fact that ownership would have to spend couple extra mil. It's that we would be bringing ourselves closer to repeater tax without any reason, which might really backfire if this team takes the next step


That is only theoretical. You have Lowry, DDR, Ibaka, JV coming off the books in two years. Combined that is near 100M$. There might be another major cap spike by then due to betting money. It will be really difficult to be tax a team after all of that even if we re-sign DDR with the super max provision.
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Rapsmannn
It's amazing that there is a defend Masai thread, memories fade quickly

Rob Babcock
BRYAN Colangelo

Masai isn't perfect but he far better than most G.Ms

With this last run of winning seasons after another,Masai has bought himself at least another 5 years...im sure other teams would love to have him.
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