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Rudy-T
Now that you all have had your fun with words, I need to point out that my comment about getting rid of DD, because its logical had nothing to do with wether it would be tactical, strategic or in anyway good move. Just a reference to Casey getting fired a day after getting honored as Coach of the year by his colleagues. Thats why FVV was also on the list. 

Its nice that DD gets the recognition, but its also pretty meaningless if he cannot make another jump to his game this off-season (or be traded for something good). DD as he is, isnt carrying us to glory and its very unlikely that we will get a better player while he is in Toronto. To me it would be nice to see him improve his defense. It cannot be impossible. Harden was worse than DD few years back, but isnt such a defensive liability anymore (not saying he is DPOY material either).
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LX
Thanks Rudy. I knew there was something in there to get.

DeMar did improve defensively this season. But it was not at all a point of emphasis. He needs to be able to ensure that he doesn't get exploited. That is probably going to mean that he doesn't score as much. But getting that balanced out could unlock a lot of good things. If the team as a whole can look at two-way play then they could vie for the top seed again. That is going to be the challenge for the next coach.
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Tommy C
Or maybe instead of trading him the GM should go out there and see how he can make the team better by surrounding DeMar with players who compliment him.

As I said before, DeMar isn’t perfect but he has a lot of good things going for him and it’s not like this franchise can really attract any big names, let alone retain them and most people here were concerned when it was time to extend Lowry that he may sign elsewhere.

Case in point, even via trade we are not getting a better value easily let alone retaining those assets when the time comes.

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Rapsmannn
Or Demar can show up for a playoff series.

Derozan is our guy but can't sugar coat things, Demar didn't show up when we needed him most.... hopefully this will be more motivation to improve and get better so he can handle the stress of the playoffs
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elT
JeffB_STR82DVD wrote:


That's debatable.

Oladipo was a better defender, rebounder, more efficient shooter, higher ppg (Virtual tie). Overall I think Oladipo had the better, more consistent season.

It doesn't take away from him getting all-nba 2nd team. Just an opinion


DDR's team won 59 games. DDR's team averages 50 wins over last 5 years with 3 completely different supporting casts. 

At some point, you have to look at wins as the best "catch all" and "efficiency" stat because it is exactly that. The team's been getting everyone's best shot for last three years. Still been winning 50+ all the time.

Same goes for Paul George and Jimmy Buttler. They get praised for defense and efficiency and "showing up when it matters". In past three years George has won total of 5 playoff games and zero rounds. Butler has won total of 3 playoff games and zero rounds. Neither has won 50 games in those regular season either.

DDR in same three years, 166 regular season wins, 4 playoff rounds won, 18 playoff games won.

At some point, you have to look at wins. You just have to. Because the fact is, stats are not catching everything so there has to be some kind of baseline. Otherwise, you are just getting into hypothetical individual "in vacuum" comparisons which just end up being "i prefer this guy over this guy". You can say you prefer this guy over that guy, nothing wrong with that. But if we are comparing objectively, I think wins matter a whole lot more and contextualize the rest of it.
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JeffB
elT wrote:


DDR's team won 59 games. DDR's team averages 50 wins over last 5 years with 3 completely different supporting casts. 

At some point, you have to look at wins as the best "catch all" and "efficiency" stat because it is exactly that. The team's been getting everyone's best shot for last three years. Still been winning 50+ all the time.

Same goes for Paul George and Jimmy Buttler. They get praised for defense and efficiency and "showing up when it matters". In past three years George has won total of 5 playoff games and zero rounds. Butler has won total of 3 playoff games and zero rounds. Neither has won 50 games in those regular season either.

DDR in same three years, 166 regular season wins, 4 playoff rounds won, 18 playoff games won.

At some point, you have to look at wins. You just have to. Because the fact is, stats are not catching everything so there has to be some kind of baseline. Otherwise, you are just getting into hypothetical individual "in vacuum" comparisons which just end up being "i prefer this guy over this guy". You can say you prefer this guy over that guy, nothing wrong with that. But if we are comparing objectively, I think wins matter a whole lot more and contextualize the rest of it.


You don't get those wins without good depth. Nobody can deny we have better depth than Indiana. I refuse to say DeRozan had a better individual season than Oladipo based team wins.
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elT
JeffB_STR82DVD wrote:


You don't get those wins without good depth. Nobody can deny we have better depth than Indiana. I refuse to say DeRozan had a better individual season than Oladipo based team wins.


Same was said about Paul George last year in Indiana but when he was replaced by always hard working, hard playing Oladipo that team won more and play a whole lot better and was ton more fun and had zero drama. Nearly won 50 games. Pacers team outside of George was called shit last year. Even though they had Teague who is superior player to both Collins and Joseph. CJ Miles is probably better than Bodanovic but sure as hell isn't worse.

You are looking at individual stats and calling it individual season. Also look at how one is behaving, what kind of impact it has on his teammates, how hard they play for each other, how much they win as a unit etc.. Sure, some if it is depth but again, 3 different supporting casts in last five years, averaging 50 wins and that shows something something.

Also, I'm a fan of Oladipo and new found Pacers success. Loads of fun. But DDR is DDR.
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Tommy C
It all comes down to Masai, he will need to go out there to find somehow more playoff-ready players to help the core if the goal is to win now.
If he doesn’t think this core can get better then it’s pointless and we are going to be retooling next season which is to me unfortunate because this roster has the potential but we have some weak spots to address and dead weight to lift and shift which definitely won’t be easy.
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LeBronIsYourDaddy
JeffB_STR82DVD wrote:


That's debatable.

Oladipo was a better defender, rebounder, more efficient shooter, higher ppg (Virtual tie). Overall I think Oladipo had the better, more consistent season.

It doesn't take away from him getting all-nba 2nd team. Just an opinion



 Dude made all NBA defense team. If we are talking about both sides of the ball even if you rate DeMar slightly ahead offensively he is light years behind defensively.  The problem is all awards are basically offensive awards and not complete basketball rewards. Besides DPOY and all defense teams, defense is not considered a criteria for anything else even tho its literally half the game.

 Its why guys like Harden, Curry, Nash etc can win MVPs despite being complete no shows defensively many nights and a guy like Kawhi doesnt get the love he should despite being an absolute defensive stud on a nightly basis. Like Oladipo was this year.
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