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moremilk
I mentioned earlier in this thread that this game could be a turning point. What I meant is that after a loss in this manner, either the team will break, or they will finally get over that fear of failing that I suspect is part of the reason why we look so passive at times.

Maybe this game will finally release them, I wish we'd have lost by more though - the come back will dampen the impact a crushing loss would have had. We had one of our best stretches of the season after the crushing loss in SAS.

Re: Nurse, I definitely share the lack of confidence many have in him at this point. Early returns are not very favourable, but I will still give him the benefit of the doubt. He got a very difficult job and it was only made worse by the injury bug. I want to see how this team does over the next month or two, with hopefully a healthy crew and less busy schedule. It's not looking good so far though ...
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elT
Meh, Bucks. I really don't see anything remotely impressive/scary with that team, especially in terms of contending. But hey, they've earned their hype, let them have it.

My problem is with Raptors not only being far from our ceiling but finding ways to lower our floor. That is extremely frustrating.

If there are things, like stomach virus, out of anyone's control that impact the team than fine. But this has been going on for long enough that I have serious doubts about chemistry, game plan and cohesion.

Still super pissed at entire team starting with Nurse and Lowry, too pissed to think clearly or be fair. But one thing is certain, I'm tired of experiments and exploration under some grand excuse of preparing for playoffs. ASB is around the corner, end the experiments and start making the team better. Use practice time wisely, we've got some but not enough to fuck around. Stop fucking around, shorten the rotation, execute, run offense, pick a style, stop doing this hybrid of motion and ISO, one or the other, cut the crap, stop being creative for the sake of being creative, stop being selfishly passive, take control of the game and lead.

The very first offensive possession, obvious confusion of where who should be. Wasted half a shot clock setting up. That is sign of not being prepared at all. And frankly, I'm disgusted by it. Happens way too often, on both ends. First half in Houston was the worst defense we played in years. I'm simply not seeing enough progress. And while I'm not worried about Bucks, it will take a lot higher level of play to beat Boston and even Sixers - depending on their final roster after buyouts. And if we can't dominantly win a series against Boston there won't be a smallest chance against GSW. And that is the bench mark. Nurse can't use previous teams and Casey as benchmark. And his performance so far has been even bellow that.
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Mo_fusion
Fugly game. Barely watched first 3 quarters anywase. Glad.

2 things are emerging: we should keep budding star Siakam and we need an AD or similar. At the very least a very very dependendble tier 2 guy...
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Tommy C
Mo_fusion wrote:
Fugly game. Barely watched first 3 quarters anywase. Glad.

2 things are emerging: we should keep budding star Siakam and we need an AD or similar. At the very least a very very dependendble tier 2 guy...


You won’t see an AD trade without them asking for Siakam going the other way. Pelicans can do much better than that.
All good trades for a 1st or 2nd tier talent gonna cost us Siakam cuz who else we gonna trade who has that value? Wright, Miles and Monroe? JV, Ibaka?
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LX
elT wrote:
The very first offensive possession, obvious confusion of where who should be. Wasted half a shot clock setting up. That is sign of not being prepared at all. And frankly, I'm disgusted by it. Happens way too often, on both ends. First half in Houston was the worst defense we played in years. I'm simply not seeing enough progress. And while I'm not worried about Bucks, it will take a lot higher level of play to beat Boston and even Sixers - depending on their final roster after buyouts. And if we can't dominantly win a series against Boston there won't be a smallest chance against GSW. And that is the bench mark. Nurse can't use previous teams and Casey as benchmark. And his performance so far has been even bellow that.


Nurse said at the half that the biggest issue was guys spending too much time worrying about mistakes they were making rather than moving onto the next possession and just playing. But how do they get to where those mistakes are so damn prevalent?

Preparation has been the biggest difference between teams in pretty much all of the losses. That stands in stark contrast to the past where preparation was so vital in almost every win. It is starting to look like Bud would have been the better choice. I liked Nurse over him for the sake of continuity. And I think they benefited from continuity at the start. But now that is dwindling and it just doesn’t feel like there is a solid base under them.
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elT
LX wrote:


Nurse said at the half that the biggest issue was guys spending too much time worrying about mistakes they were making rather than moving onto the next possession and just playing. But how do they get to where those mistakes are so damn prevalent?

Preparation has been the biggest difference between teams in pretty much all of the losses. That stands in stark contrast to the past where preparation was so vital in almost every win. It is starting to look like Bud would have been the better choice. I liked Nurse over him for the sake of continuity. And I think they benefited from continuity at the start. But now that is dwindling and it just doesn’t feel like there is a solid base under them.


I wanted Bud but was positive about Nurse and the whole process. And no regrets so far.

Casey simply outworked everyone in his path. He had to through out his whole life, it is became modus vivendi. Not to say he isn't good coach overall, but that was one of his key advantages during regular seasons here. That advantage gets lost in playoffs because the other guys get to close the gap in preparation when there's time.

Nurse hasn't shown that he is anywhere near Casey's level of preparation. Which isn't ground for definitive judgment but does illustrate that we did lose one thing that was a big deal in the past.

I don't envy Nurse and pressure he is under. I'm hoping he simplifies things and stops being creative for the sake of being creative. I really think it is time to shorten the rotation, shorten leashes in certain areas, focus on game to game plans that serve the team and build confidence and somewhere in all of that, rebuild the overall identity step by step. I'd like to see clearer hirarchy and structure on offense. There's no need to have Ibaka make series of decisions on the perimeter while Lowry and Kawhi stand in the corners. That is not on Ibaka.

Shit is still scrambled in my brain but in short, the regular season as a lab is great but there need to be deadlines and benchmarks. For me, ASB is the last possible date to process all data and make final decisions and focus on implementing everything over last 25 games. I open to waiting but I'm eager to see progress. The way we played last night after four days off has me worried. It isn't the loss but the way we played once again this season.




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edki
It was huge mistake to keep Lowry after letting DD go. Since the decision was made to dismantle the core which was Casey, DD and Lowry they should’ve completed the task.
Lowry is great competitor but we all have to admit he was never very consistent performer thru his entire career and he is definitely not in shape now. It will be unreasonable to expect him to change between now and the end of this season. If the plan is to go all in and try to retain Kawhi I would try to trade Lowry before the deadline. The team needs a stable playmaker.
It’s too late or too early to talk about our coaching problem. Too late to bring a new coach and make a difference this year and too early to let Nurse go if the team goes into rebuild this summer.
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'trane
edki wrote:
It was huge mistake to keep Lowry after letting DD go. Since the decision was made to dismantle the core which was Casey, DD and Lowry they should’ve completed the task.
Lowry is great competitor but we all have to admit he was never very consistent performer thru his entire career and he is definitely not in shape now. It will be unreasonable to expect him to change between now and the end of this season. If the plan is to go all in and try to retain Kawhi I would try to trade Lowry before the deadline. The team needs a stable playmaker.
It’s too late or too early to talk about our coaching problem. Too late to bring a new coach and make a difference this year and too early to let Nurse go if the team goes into rebuild this summer.


Would you have said that when Kyle was absolutely killing it at the start of the season before he got hurt?  I sure wouldn't have.
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edki
'trane wrote:


Would you have said that when Kyle was absolutely killing it at the start of the season before he got hurt?  I sure wouldn't have.


This is by definition the inconsistency I’m talking about. No pressure everything is ticking - Lowry is great. Pressure, team struggles - Lowry is struggling. I know for sure now that Lowry is the barometer of this team. The storm is not here yet but your “atmosphere pressure” is going down...

I have to admit, I thought that it was our new system that unleashed beast mode Lowry but now I realized that this was not the case because there is no clear offensive system or identity to this team yet.
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edki
Also, Lowry got hurt much later, after his struggles begin.
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Mo_fusion
Lowry's inconsistency is just annoying. Him being voted an AS for the fifth year in a row should solidify his trade value (it should be very high).

People have said there is no way he is staying past his contract end date w/ Raptors. I think he is still salty about DD - or something else - who knows. But mentally, I just don't know.

Who can we get for Lowry (outside of packaging him - instead of Siakam+pick for AD)? Any other sure fire trade or package?
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edki
Mo_fusion wrote:
Lowry's inconsistency is just annoying. Him being voted an AS for the fifth year in a row should solidify his trade value (it should be very high).

People have said there is no way he is staying past his contract end date w/ Raptors. I think he is still salty about DD - or something else - who knows. But mentally, I just don't know.

Who can we get for Lowry (outside of packaging him - instead of Siakam+pick for AD)? Any other sure fire trade or package?


I would try to explore Mike Connely option.
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DocHolliday
edki wrote:


I would try to explore Mike Connely option.


Utah is making a push for MC, they're building a package centered around Rubio's expiring and draft picks - though their pick probably won't be as high as what the Grizz want.  Toronto has the same issue.
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Mo_fusion
Look what's being discussed re: Conley right now:

https://www.slamonline.com/nba/grizzlies-jazz-discussing-mike-conley-ricky-rubio-trade/
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Ball Don't Lie
Lowry once again sucks vs a very good team. The trend continues. Our bench killed us in the late 1st/early 2nd, another trend. Lowrys spot up shooting has gone way down this year as well. 

The biggest issue with our team vs the top competition, especially the teams that pack the paint on us(DEN/MIL), is our lack of consistent outside shooting. We need to upgrade the shooting off of the bench, and hope OG transforms into what he was last year. 

I would also like to see Lowry moved in a package for Conley or Holiday, but that seems very unrealistic at this point. It's hard to like our team against a team like Boston when you cant even count on your 2nd best player to show up. 
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