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moremilk
Northern Neighbour wrote:


Given that only the Bulls in 2015 and the Raptors in 2016 took the Cavs to 6 games, your analysis is, no offence, full of hot air.


Again, focusing on the cavs alone is pointless. It's LeBron that is the obstacle, on whatever team he's on. So you can look back all the way to 2010 as far I'm concerned.

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Northern Neighbour
moremilk wrote:
Again, focusing on the cavs alone is pointless. It's LeBron that is the obstacle, on whatever team he's on. So you can look back all the way to 2010 as far I'm concerned.


Huh? You're responding to the wrong guy.

I was pointing out the weakness in your argument, where you said Indiana and Miami gave Cleveland more difficulty than Toronto even though they were both swept and the Raps won 2 games against them in 2016. While the Raptors were blown out in the other four games, they gave the Cavs a battle. Even LeBron admitted the Cavs had to amp up their games against Toronto.
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elT
moremilk wrote:
We're talking about LeBron here, aren't we? With the cavs, or in Miami, his team was the team to beat the last 8 years. Of all the pretenders, outside of Boston, only Indiana gave them a real scare, and only Chicago made it somewhat interesting. You can hang your hat on those two wins we have if that makes you happy. You can also look at the point differential in those 8 games and maybe you'll draw a different conclusion.


Yeah, you just keep adding stuff to somehow show Raptors did worse than they did. Point differential argument is crap because it simply doesn't matter. Games won in a series matter because that is how you advance. You can lose 3 games by combined 150 points but win four by combined four points. Your point differential is -146 but who the hell cares, you won the damn series. Do that four times and you've got the championship and nobody will ever care about your point differential except some random basketball nerds. 

And going back into history to include Pacers and Bulls just shows how weak the initial premise is. Why not go all the way back to Celtics, Pistons, Nets, Knicks and Vince days? How did Vince do against LeBron in LeBron's rookie year? 

It is completely irrelevant argument in the end. Raptors got stopped at the same roadblock as the rest of the east. The aesthetics seem to be dependent on mood of the roadblock for the most part. 
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KAWHACTUS
You never know who knows who. One is judged by his past, both are judged by their futures ... 


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22606317/kevin-durant-michael-beasley-childhood-friendship-nba-journey


http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=22610421

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moremilk
elT wrote:


Yeah, you just keep adding stuff to somehow show Raptors did worse than they did. Point differential argument is crap because it simply doesn't matter. Games won in a series matter because that is how you advance. You can lose 3 games by combined 150 points but win four by combined four points. Your point differential is -146 but who the hell cares, you won the damn series. Do that four times and you've got the championship and nobody will ever care about your point differential except some random basketball nerds. 

And going back into history to include Pacers and Bulls just shows how weak the initial premise is. Why not go all the way back to Celtics, Pistons, Nets, Knicks and Vince days? How did Vince do against LeBron in LeBron's rookie year? 

It is completely irrelevant argument in the end. Raptors got stopped at the same roadblock as the rest of the east. The aesthetics seem to be dependent on mood of the roadblock for the most part. 


Most analytical guys will argue that point differential matters more than wins and losses.

Obviously, in the context of winning a series, wins are all that matters. But when predicting future performance, relying on point differential produces better results.

I agree that in this particular case, it's less relevant because both us and the cavs are so different.

But strictly looking at the past, I don't agree that we gave LeBron, or even the Cavs, the best fight in the east. And that's not even accounting for the fact that we have been the best east team in the regular season, since LeBron returned. Teams with far weaker records have been as competitive or better, at least looking through the prism of point differential.
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elT
moremilk wrote:
Most analytical guys will argue that point differential matters more than wins and losses. Obviously, in the context of winning a series, wins are all that matters. But when predicting future performance, relying on point differential produces better results. I agree that in this particular case, it's less relevant because both us and the cavs are so different. But strictly looking at the past, I don't agree that we gave LeBron, or even the Cavs, the best fight in the east. And that's not even accounting for the fact that we have been the best east team in the regular season, since LeBron returned. Teams with far weaker records have been as competitive or better, at least looking through the prism of point differential.


For analytics and prediction, point differential is relevant for evaluation and prediction in regular season and completely irrelevant in postseason. Once match-ups, tactics, depth, star power, versatility start kicking in while all of it is wrapped in series of game to game adjustments a lot of things can be simply thrown out of the window. 

Raptors got smashed by the Bucks in game 3 last year. It was super frustrating and embarrassing. After Powell/JV adjustment, the series was over and in Raptors favor, dominating the next three games. That dominance was completely unpredictable based upon point differential before game 4 and wasn't even reflected in point differential in games 4,5,6. Raptors completely owned the Bucks in those games on both ends of the floor. 

Those weaker teams that ended up with better point differential did not face the Cavs at their best. It was clearly visible in Pacers series that Cavs didn't give a damn or care about Paul George and his band of misfits. In one game, they were down 20+ with few minutes left in the third quarter. The fourth quarter started with the game tied or pretty much tied after Cavs visibly and obviously flipped the switch. It was ridiculous how quickly they got what they wanted and how they wanted it.  Point differential won't reflect that because Cavs are that kind of team, they have trouble giving a damn, even in playoffs at times. 


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Halph-Breed Baller
2 words: Mario Hezonja
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Northern Neighbour
Halph-Breed Baller wrote:
2 words: Mario Hezonja


Extremely poor defensive player whose long-term role is as a bench player. The team is way better off developing OG than spending resources on a lottery bust.
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