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Philosoraptor
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I contend that Siakam just has way more tools than OG and you really arent losing much, if anything, defensively. He has better handles, vision, passing, rebounds in traffic, quicker first step etc. I see him as the future starting PF


+1 Fully agree with you here.

Both are good players individually but in the same line up, OG is best suited as the SF and Siakam as PF
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LX
Norm is seen as primarily a defender. He shut down Paul George and helped his team win a playoff series. He can handle it. Nothing about his play nor Ross’ play ever pointed towards being worn down. It’s just largely irrelevant.

As for OG, he said it himself, plain and simply as he always does. “There is no difference between playing the 3 and 4. No difference.” Go back and look at his media day scrum. Plain and simple.

I have no issue with both guys playing together. Or having one guy start over the other. Bybthe sounds of it we’ll get to see all kinds of combinations, so it is not going to be about contending one thing or another. There will be chances to see results.
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LX
Philosoraptor wrote:


+1 Fully agree with you here.

Both are good players individually but in the same line up, OG is best suited as the SF and Siakam as PF


Or they could both be listed as PF. The label doesn’t mean anything.
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LeBronIsYourDaddy

LX wrote:
Norm is seen as primarily a defender. He shut down Paul George and helped his team win a playoff series. He can handle it. Nothing about his play nor Ross’ play ever pointed towards being worn down. It’s just largely irrelevant.

.


 of course its relevant. especially when you are very undersized lots of times like Norm and Ross often were. Acting like guarding bigger strong guys nightly doesnt effect you is silly.

 He did shut down PG to the tune of 27/8/5 on 45% FG and 42% from 3 in a tightly contested 7 game series. He had a couple really strong games but as we have seen Norm struggles often with bigger 3s bullying him. Its like this narrative that OG "shut down" LeBron. He did well, LeBron still went off and owned us.

 Unless you are saying Casey is a fool and didnt play our best defenders vs other teams best players.... i would actually agree to a point but when guys are having historical numbers vs you i dont think you should throw around "shut down" whatsoever. Even if one player did a better job than others. Neither guy was shut down in the slightest for very long.

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LX
LeBronIsYourDaddy wrote:


 of course its relevant. especially when you are very undersized lots of times like Norm and Ross often were. Acting like guarding bigger strong guys nightly doesnt effect you is silly.

 He did shut down PG to the tune of 27/8/5 on 45% FG and 42% from 3 in a tightly contested 7 game series. He had a couple really strong games but as we have seen Norm struggles often with bigger 3s bullying him. Its like this narrative that OG "shut down" LeBron. He did well, LeBron still went off and owned us.

 Unless you are saying Casey is a fool and didnt play our best defenders vs other teams best players.... i would actually agree to a point but when guys are having historical numbers vs you i dont think you should throw around "shut down" whatsoever. Even if one player did a better job than others. Neither guy was shut down in the slightest for very long.



Did Lebron score by driving hard at OG? By posting him up? Not so much. Those plays tended to result in stops. Lebron hit a record number of fadeaway jumpers. Surely that wore OG down and provides evidence of being negatively effected. And I didn’t throw around any idea of shutting down Lebron. I said he he was not overmatched, meaning to say that he did not struggle. And he did not struggle.

And again, maybe take what OG said into consideration. NO DIFFERENCE. Or don’t. I don’t really care.
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DocHolliday
Philosoraptor wrote:


+1 Fully agree with you here.

Both are good players individually but in the same line up, OG is best suited as the SF and Siakam as PF


I think we need to get away from the whole sf and pf concept.  It's not like it was in the past as the game has evolved so much.  We've seen Siakam play some 3 and 4 and I expect to see him play some 5 at times.  OG can play the 3 and 4 and in certain match-ups the 5.  Both can pretty much guard any position.  Really, they should simply be referred to as frontcourt players, since they can interchange so much and will play in different spots through out the year.

Like the AS ballot says, guards and frontcourt players - the result of position-less basketball.
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Dmega
The more I look at advanced stats in other threads is the more I'm convinced the best 5 is kyle, green, leonard, OG and JV. I'm certain Ibaka will be the starting power forward to start the season but based in his yearly decline I can foresee OG getting the nod instead at some point.
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DanH
Dmega wrote:
The more I look at advanced stats in other threads is the more I'm convinced the best 5 is kyle, green, leonard, OG and JV. I'm certain Ibaka will be the starting power forward to start the season but based in his yearly decline I can foresee OG getting the nod instead at some point.


If we're looking at advanced stats, FVV in for Green is a big upgrade, unless Green bounces back not only to his pre-injury self but to his 2014 self.  Whether that works against all opposing lineups is yet to be seen, but I'd hope that would be the closing look most nights.  
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Dmega
True but its also valid that fvv is more important off the bench to start...my conclusions are based on green playing before injury level.
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DanH
Dmega wrote:
True but its also valid that fvv is more important off the bench to start...my conclusions are based on green playing before injury level.


Oh, FVV has to come off the bench.  But the best 5 is probably your closing lineup, not your starters.  Starters are minutes eaters.
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Dmega
Oh you are in the arguing mood...eat fiber.
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Northern Neighbour
DanH wrote:


If we're looking at advanced stats, FVV in for Green is a big upgrade, unless Green bounces back not only to his pre-injury self but to his 2014 self.  Whether that works against all opposing lineups is yet to be seen, but I'd hope that would be the closing look most nights.  


That’s a bit of an oversimplification since Green is often matched up against the opponents’ best scorers while FVV has done most of his damage against backups.

The article LX posted in the new Ramblings thread has some really good information about players’ performances against different teams and lineups. For instance, is it advisable to start Lowry and FVV against Golden State or OKC, which have bigger backcourts?
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DanH
Northern Neighbour wrote:


That’s a bit of an oversimplification since Green is often matched up against the opponents’ best scorers while FVV has done most of his damage against backups.

The article LX posted in the new Ramblings thread has some really good information about players’ performances against different teams and lineups. For instance, is it advisable to start Lowry and FVV against Golden State or OKC, which have bigger backcourts?


It’s never advisable to start FVV. He’s a super sub. Doesn’t really have much to do with the size of the back court though, FVV and Lowry have proven capable of guarding up a position.
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