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JeffB
moremilk wrote:
I think bosh got 2nd team too, one year, and 3rd team in another. 


Bosh got All NBA 2nd team in 2007, All rookie 1st team in 2004.
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Jakkal


I think Siakam's contract is tied to the salary cap, where he'll now get 28% of the team's $109M salary cap. If the cap goes down, Siakam's salary for that year and the overall value of the contract will decrease. I might be wrong on my interpretation of his contract, though.


True but it is still a larger percentage than it would have been so eats into our available cap for free agents.
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DanH
Jakkal wrote:


First off ya it's the money without the suppressed cap we would have had, but now Pascal gets the raise AND unless I missed some news on that front we likely have a suppressed cap. So we get 2 whammies.

Secondly, we went through a lot of scenarios for a max free agent where we don't have a "just a few million". It's gotta come out of somebody which primarily means Fred. What's his max we can pay Fred now and still get a max free agent? 19M???

Your partially right though. It has no effect if we aren't going for a max free agent which may be the better plan anyways. We can trade our aging vets for youth picks and expiring contracts and possibly still get someone, not a max, in free agency.


Max we can give Fred is still just above 20M AAV on a 5 year deal. I don’t think the Raptors were eager to be paying him much more than that anyway.

My point is it’s tight because of the suppressed cap (and 2021 may not be that suppressed, I’m using some conservative assumptions here), not so much because of Pascal. Having and paying for good players is always a good thing. 
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DanH


I think Siakam's contract is tied to the salary cap, where he'll now get 28% of the team's $109M salary cap. If the cap goes down, Siakam's salary for that year and the overall value of the contract will decrease. I might be wrong on my interpretation of his contract, though.


Yeah, though it is important to note his contract value is tied only to the 2020-21 salary cap. After that the cap could double but his contract value will stay the same. The first year salary is 28% of the cap (I’m assuming 109M for now), but once that is set, the second year salary is 8% higher than that, and each raise thereafter is the same, no more being tied to a cap number. 

My my point was when he signed the deal, we expected a 115M cap, so his contract was meant to be 25% of that, or just under 30M. Now it’s slightly above 30M, no significant difference, with the cap drop and his incentive kicking in. No big impact on planning.

The real impact on the planning is the projected cap for 2021 was something like 123M. That dropping to 109M if the cap stays flat that long is a much, much bigger impact on those plans than Pascal going from 29M to 30M. 
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Jakkal
DanH wrote:

My my point was when he signed the deal, we expected a 115M cap, so his contract was meant to be 25% of that, or just under 30M. Now it’s slightly above 30M, no significant difference, with the cap drop and his incentive kicking in. No big impact on planning.


I think its a little twisted how your viewing it. Sure from an overall budget situation, totally ignoring cap, its of no significance. But who cares about overall budget other than the guys paying the bills. It does affect our potential 2021 available cap space. That 3% increase means he gets roughly $3M more than he would have without the award. That's $3M less available cap.


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DocHolliday

It'll be interesting to see if the cap stays flattened in 2021 with so many marquee free agents either hitting or possibly hitting the market - a slew of short term deals coming on the horizon?  I would think the cache of these players (which includes Bron), may come into play in the length of the cap flattening (if it does as nothing is set yet and if it does happen, could be only 1 year).

I'm only curious as this cap flattening could push the big FA summer of 2021 to 2022 or 2023 (or even flatten out the number of FA that year and spread them over the next couple years).  Difficult to conjecture what will happen in 2021 and beyond.
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DanH
Jakkal wrote:


I think its a little twisted how your viewing it. Sure from an overall budget situation, totally ignoring cap, its of no significance. But who cares about overall budget other than the guys paying the bills. It does affect our potential 2021 available cap space. That 3% increase means he gets roughly $3M more than he would have without the award. That's $3M less available cap.




Yeah, and whatever Fred makes is going to be a few million more than whatever a few million less than his salary will be. 

Would we prefer Siakam had had a significantly worse year with less reason to like him as a player and have 3M more cap? I wouldn't. 

The real crunch is coming from the 2021 cap potentially being 15M+ lower than it was projected. 
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Jakkal
DanH wrote:


Yeah, and whatever Fred makes is going to be a few million more than whatever a few million less than his salary will be. 

Would we prefer Siakam had had a significantly worse year with less reason to like him as a player and have 3M more cap? I wouldn't. 

The real crunch is coming from the 2021 cap potentially being 15M+ lower than it was projected. 


I didn't say anything about Siakam's year, but to say the all-nba selection has no effect on cap is very misleading and outright wrong. Sure the bigger crunch is the loss in league revenue. They both have an effect on cap.
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LX
So Siakam received one first team vote, which looks to have been what made the difference between his second team result over a third team result. Was it Milwaukee throwing that first place vote his way? And maybe not giving Tatum any vote at all?
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moremilk
LX wrote:
So Siakam received one first team vote, which looks to have been what made the difference between his second team result over a third team result. Was it Milwaukee throwing that first place vote his way? And maybe not giving Tatum any vote at all?


entirely possible, I was entertaining the thought that some of the boston/miami/philly/milwaukee media threw a wrench in there to sabotage our cap 🙂

Probably not, but wouldn't surprise me if it did happen.
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Jakkal
moremilk wrote:


entirely possible, I was entertaining the thought that some of the boston/miami/philly/milwaukee media threw a wrench in there to sabotage our cap 🙂

Probably not, but wouldn't surprise me if it did happen.


It does seam really odd that he got a 1st team vote. Maybe even Detroit, knowing it affects what we can offer Fred if we want to keep the max slot available.
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moremilk
here's the actual breakdown, if anybody has the patience to look through it

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2020/09/2019-20-NBA-All-NBA-Team-Voter-Selections.pdf
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moremilk
definitely see some boston,miami and milwaukee media votes in there for pascal, he seemed to have been very popular with theathletic crowd though.
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elT
moremilk wrote:
here's the actual breakdown, if anybody has the patience to look through it



Based on that sheet, Daimiel Antoni from Movistar+ gave that first team vote to Siakam.
You can thank him(or do the other thing) here: https://twitter.com/adaimiel
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moremilk
Jakkal wrote:


It does seam really odd that he got a 1st team vote. Maybe even Detroit, knowing it affects what we can offer Fred if we want to keep the max slot available.


the first team vote came from Antoni Daimiel from Movistar+, kind of an odd choice of publication for nba awards ...
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