LX Show full post »
Jakkal
Acie wrote:
This is what Fred says to all the haters...
 


Its not hate, just don't want to overpay and limit our cap situation.
Quote 0 0
Northern Neighbour
FVV's situation is hard to predict. He might end up being a very good starter or a sixth man. Either way, he'll get paid. He has his obvious limitations, but he's an overachiever, a leader, and has come up clutch and these intangibles are immeasurable. Teams will pay him because he's better than at least a dozen PGs in the League. He would be a great fit in New York or Chicago. If the Lakers or Clippers had the cap space, he would be an ideal fit. Now do the Raptors view FVV as their PG of the future? No one really knows.

Jakkal, though, hit the nail on the head - the team wants to keep as much cap flexibility for 2021, and re-signing FVV to a big contract would hamstring any efforts to land a max FA. But is FVV too invaluable to let go? Or does Masai make a move now to get some assets for the 25-year old PG? 
Quote 0 0
Pzabby_2nd
FVV earning how much would make us not have max cap space in 2021, barring other moves, assuming FA's expire?
Quote 0 0
JeffB
Pzabby_2nd wrote:
FVV earning how much would make us not have max cap space in 2021, barring other moves, assuming FA's expire?


We'll likely have to trade for a max player anyway.
Quote 0 0
moremilk
what fred wants plays a part too, and may be one of the reasons we're starting him. If he wants to be a starter, and our plan is to keep lowry (who certainly looks like he has plenty left in the tank), he may even leave for a little less money to a team where he would start.

However, I would be shocked if fred leaves in the summer. Masai and his agent probably already worked it out, either he stays on a contract that works for all, or he's traded at the deadline. A team like Orlando could use him, and they have tons of assets. I would be all for a deal that sends fred for fultz and mo bamba, or fulz and a future first. Or even just fultz, if the alternative is to let fred walk.
Quote 1 0
Jakkal
Pzabby_2nd wrote:
FVV earning how much would make us not have max cap space in 2021, barring other moves, assuming FA's expire?


It's not really about affording FVV, its about adding other pieces including a 5th starter and bench pieces. Is he worth $20M+ if we are tight on cap space or would it be better to spend that money on multiple other pieces?

Quote 0 0
DanH
Pzabby_2nd wrote:
FVV earning how much would make us not have max cap space in 2021, barring other moves, assuming FA's expire?


My last calculation had about 18M pegged for FVV at most. But it also depends what happens with the cap, both in 2020 (as that will impact Pascal's salary and FVV's market) and in 2021 (for obvious reasons).
Quote 0 0
Kaddrik

so the question is at what price do you keep FVV ?
15-16M max would be nice, above i would trade him, and not let him walk for free !

let's make it real :
in 2021-22; (i exclude Powell, because i really think he won't be here summer 2021)

Siakam : 31,320,000
Hernandez  1,782,621
Thomas : 1,782,621

total :  34 885 242 : let say :35M
low estimation (pessimist for 2021-22) : 110 M
left : 75M for at least 10 more players :

so :
Giannis : 35M
OG : 18M (first year)
 
let's say we keep FVV at 15M/yrs every year.
and keep boucher at 3M/yrs for 3 yrs.

i didn't count draft pick from 2020+21 that should eat all our left caproom.
At low expectation that left us with 2M.

Giannis 35,000,000
Siakam : 31,320,000
OG: 20M
FVV: 15M
Boucher : 3M
Hernandez  1,782,621
Thomas : 1,782,621
1st 2020
1st 2021

left +/- 2.M for another contract

+ MLE (Davis)
+ BAE

+ 1 vet

13 players for at least 125-130M (under tax)

of course if you expect the cap going higher than 115M we get more space

matybe 10-11M more so that would left us we enough to keep a 32yrs old Ibaka for a 35M/3yrs contract to end his careeer ?

when i say ibaka that could be any vet defensive Big. but i tool ibaka for the demonstration :

FVV/Davis/BAE
OG/Thomas/?
Giannis/FRP20/?
Siakam/Hernandez/FRP21
Ibaka/Boucher/Vet

do you think that enough to hope winning or even attract giannis ???

of course all the calculation are approximatives..; it's just to give idea !

Quote 0 0
DanH
Numbers are a ways off there because you aren't including empty roster slot cap holds at a million a pop.  

I wrote a full article on planning for summer 2021 when the Pascal extension was signed. Take a gander if interested.

https://www.raptorshq.com/2019/10/20/20922704/nba-free-agency-toronto-raptors-pascal-siakam-contract-extension
Quote 1 0
Kaddrik

Thanks !

 

Quote 0 0
Jakkal

Norms contract is an issue presuming he doesn't start playing up to its value which he isn't. Getting rid of his contract won't be easy though. Since our 2nd round picks are fairly late we'll likely have to offer a 1st round pick, possibly top 20 protected. I did a quick search of teams and players to see who we might be able to trade Norm to. This isn't an all - inclusive list. I based it on a few presumptions.

 

Presumptions:

1) That we have to have the trade done by Feb 2021 at the latest. This basically optimizes our ability to make offers day 1 of 2021 free agency. So for example if we'd signed Fred above $20M or for whatever other reason we needed that extra cap to make a max free agent offer.
 
2) I focused on teams that are above 2021 cap or closer to it to since most of the other teams likely want to keep their cap space available to sign free agents. For this purpose I  eliminated teams with salaries currently below $75M in 2021. That's just a figure I pulled out of my head, figuring the teams above $75M are more likely to be over cap by that time. A lot can change by then as more contracts are signed with teams but I had to start somewhere.
 
3) For salary matching purposes I included only players earning roughly between $8M to $14M range that expire in summer of 2020 or 2021 since its most likely a 1 for 1, 2 for 1 or 1 for 2 trade including at least 1 player of similar contract value. Norm could theoretically be traded with Ibaka or Gasol or someone of much higher contract value, but as I said previously I had to start somewhere.
 
4) I eliminated any players currently in a teams starting lineup since teams aren't likely giving them up for this type of deal.
 
This isn't about getting a useful return for Norm, its about getting rid of his contract prior to 2021 to maximize cap space and this isn't hating Norm, although I've never liked his contract. If he begins playing well then great.
 
The players meeting this criteria and expiring in 2020 are Mavs: Courtney Lee, Wizards: CJ Miles, Nuggets: Mason Plumlee, Clippers: Moe Harkless

The players meeting this criteria and expiring in 2021 are Pacers: Doug McDermott, Nuggets: Jerami Grant, Rockets: Nene

So 7 players, 4 of which where the trade has to be done this year. Not all those will even be available. Out of those 6 teams only the Rockets are actually over the cap for 2021 at this time, so all the other teams could go the route of trying to maximize their cap and therefor wouldn't want norms contract. Leaving us with 1 option... Nene

And yes... I was bored...
Quote 0 0